haplogroup T (former K2)
analysis from EUR 179
Post from iGENEA to 24.04.2010 07:04:56
it ist the mtDNA-Haplogroup T these people you mention belong to, not the Y-DNA-haplogroup T which people talk about in this thread above.
There is no genetic connection between Y-DNA and mtDNA, but there are many letters that show up as a group in both categories. Therefore one should always mention if he is talking of mtDNA or Y-DNA haplogroups.
Post from Todd to 23.04.2010 02:04:02
What? Haplo T is found amongst Royalty in Europe. Czar Nicholas, Thomas Jefferson... It's also found in small numbers in Iraqis, Egyptians, and North Africans...
Post from rene to 07.04.2010 09:04:33
the gothland silver mints are for the most part of iranian origin and not arab.
mainly from samani dynasti in iran. iranians used arabic alphabets at that time .
the east vikings had a great extended relation with iran via volga and caspian sea.
i have my paternal origin in western iran and surprisingly find i have Y haplo T m70 and later i find that even in some parts of iran like city of kermanshah and among
southern kurdish tribes and lurestani and people of isfahan and shiraz the haplo g T is in great number between 7-13%!!! . i don\'t know which pre-iranian(aryan)civilisation( like eilam . soumer, akad etc )had y haplo T . but it seems in the area where population have not been affected by arab or turkish invasion this haplogroup is in abondance!!! maybe the rest of one of older civilisations assimliated with iranian(aryan) people.
Post from sAmi to 22.12.2009 02:12:18
By the way there in the Arabian Gulf a large number of people belonging to haplogroup T, but they do not announce it because they think that haplogroup of arabs is only haplogroup J .
Post from SAmi to 22.12.2009 01:12:47
Dear Mr Roman
Dear Mr bojan
Haplogroup T, of course, is similar to (haplogroup J) was originated in Asia , then founded in the Near east, near the Red Sea ( Yemen, Ethiopia and the Arabian Peninsula) I think from there has spread to many parts of the world because of the three monotheistic religions: Judaism, Christianity and Islam.
The high frequency in Gothland island linked to the mirchant of Arab Muslim and a big number of Arab dinar discovered there .
Post from bojan to 21.12.2009 21:12:46
haplogroup T in Europe is mistery...
south Spain, south Italy can be explained perhaps with Arabic influence... but there is higher frequency in Gothland island and in one area in Germany, and also in vast area above Black sea... To investigate its possible relation with Goths
I was looking at some data of its distribution in Iberian peninsula and it is peculiar that there it exist actually only on places where Visigoths were not settled.
Another idea was that it came to Europe with Sarmatians because it matches pretty well spread of Sarmatians in Caucasus and beyond Black Sea... Osettians who are descendents of Sarmatian Alans also have it in significant percent....And in Iberian peninsula it matches well settlemnt of Alans... distribution in Italy looked to me as covering pretty well Etruscan teritories...
Post from iGENEA to 21.12.2009 07:12:05
The Haplogroup T porbably came to Europe at several ways because it originated in Asia and then spread south/west to the Near East and Northern Africa. So there where many regions from which people came to Europe and could have brought this group - also Arabs of course.
Post from SAmi to 21.12.2009 01:12:04
haplogroup T in Europe can be signature of the Arab of smuslims In Sicily and Andalusia
because I\'m Arabic from Turkey I found 3 persons belong to haplogroup T there are no big diffrence between my marks and theirs 11/12 only we left each other no longer than 47 generations about 1200 years ago ,
Post from bojan to 19.12.2009 22:12:45
I think that haplogroup T in Europe can be signature of movements of Sarmatians (which of course does not mean that it was only theirs and that they had only this haplogroup, but it means that it is the one that was different in them compared to previous inhabitants)
Also I link haplogroup T with Etruscan and in that light see Etruscan as either early wave of Sarmatians or comming from some pre-Sarmatian iranian people....
Could I be right about this?
Post from illyrian_dream to 09.01.2009 21:01:12
inma i agree with this studies, it is very profesional studies, i am albanian ,i mean it is not important that what somebody mean politikaly, it is important that things wich come from your profesional studies, illyrians was first habitans in europe and this fact come from your scienties studies. i mean if you make studies in Kosovo you will find 80% illyrians 20 % other, because kosovo habitans come from north albania mountains,and this mountains never was under any ocupation
Post from iGENEA to 25.11.2008 11:11:43
No problem, but I beg all Users to discuss politics in other forums. this is a genetic forum.
Post from klajdi to 22.11.2008 14:11:40
Inma Pazos thank you for your clarification :P
Post from Darko to 19.11.2008 15:11:37
Igenea dont bother to explain so much the same thing cause the brain washed history in greece i so big so that they just cant belive in the facts and things u r saying
Post from iGENEA to 14.11.2008 16:11:32
Yes and no .-) Mutations occur and this process it totally normal. We can calculate after how many years a mutation normally appears in average, but there is not a strict reglement, so it is impossible to tell you when exactly mutations appears.
Mutations are like copy errors, there a DNA sequences, which have a high mutation rate (they change often) and DNA sequences with a low mutation rate. To analyse the geographical origins of a person in the prehistory (haplogroups) we must analyse DNA sequences, which mutate slowly. To analyse if you belong to a specific family, we must analyse regions of your DNA, which mutate faster.
It is possible to discover your geographic roots, given that your original region determines the GENPOOL. Of course, you can marry a woman from Russia or from Spain, but normally you will marry somebody, who lives nearly. Given that all persons do the same thing, the Genpool becomes minor and all persons begin to share common profiles > specific mutations for each region.
We have the same situation with traditional behaviour: The Jews. Of course Jews are disparsed in different countries around the world and they look to marry someone, who come from another country to avoid inzest problems, BUT they marry only jews. So here is the tradition and not a regional isolation, what conducts to a minor genpool.
Post from James Papadopoulos to 13.11.2008 22:11:53
I understand region is crucial why?
Post from James Papadopoulos to 13.11.2008 22:11:16
Does science know how mutations occur?
Post from iGENEA to 13.11.2008 15:11:32
It is not possible to answer this question. It is possible these two folks are originated from Greece or from Macedonian. More folks had to be analysed to could discover which profile has been created before. So it is possible they are two totally different folks, which arrived at the same time to different regions, it is possible they lived in Macedonia and Hellenic tribes migrated from here to Greece and the contrary.
Post from James Papadopoulos to 13.11.2008 14:11:32
Do these mutations suggest that the two profiles came to the region of Greece at different times, from different areas? Or that they might of migrated together, yet would evolve differently due to isolation, geographically or culturally ( interbreeding with other tribes)?
Post from iGENEA to 13.11.2008 11:11:29
Yes, there are different GENETIC profiles between hellenic and antic macedonian profiles, but this difference is minimal.
Post from James Papadopoulos to 13.11.2008 08:11:46
Ok.. yet do you distinguish antic macedonians as genetically or historically equal/separate from the Hellenic folk tribes? Genetically what is the significance of 2 mutations for segregating antic Macedonians from the Hellenic stock?
Post from iGENEA to 11.11.2008 14:11:39
No, I'm sorry, but you are missunderstanding here something.
This User asked me about the FIRST HABITANTS in BALKAN and not about the GENETIC SIMILARITY between antic Macedonians and Hellenic tribes. Please, differ both questions.
In the REGION of GREECE we HAD different tribes, this is also HISTORACALLY prooved. You cannot confuse the geographical region and the FOLK of hellenic tribes. Of couse we had in Greece numerous tribes, like in each country of Europe. When we talk about hellenic tribes, we are talking about the folk and not about the geographical region in Greece.
Post from James papadopoullos to 11.11.2008 14:11:05
Again Inma, please watch how you distinguish between people. You once said the antic Macedonians demanded 2 more mutations then the Hellenic profile. Yet the people of ancient Greece were of numerous origins, ie the Dorian invasions. The distinction that these people, are different people from the closley related Hellenes is perplexing. You yourself revealed the profiles to be almost identical. Thus i see you only confusing matters
Post from iGENEA to 10.11.2008 12:11:50
The Illrians and Celts were one of the first habitants in Croatia, Bosnia, etc. The Thracians were more in Greece, Bulgaria etc. The Antic Macedonians and Hellenes were in Greece and Macedonia. The slavs, Hunnen, Gepiden, Alans or germanic tribes came after.
Post from DejaVu to 09.11.2008 19:11:16
Because Thracians is mentioned in history books as first settlers on the balkans.
Post from DejaVu to 09.11.2008 01:11:41
Illyrians first habitants in Balkan?
Thracians, Hellenes & Macedonians came after?
Any evidence of that?
Post from iGENEA to 07.11.2008 15:11:16
The problem is you are using the definition of Proto-Serbs, and this is not a good definition. This one could conduct people to missunderstanding.
To your question between Serbs and Illyrians:
Yes, of course there is a connection, a genetic relationsships. In the whole Balcan the illyrians and celts were the first habitants and I2a the primor haplogroup, what enables us to confirm a genetic relationsship between all actual Ex-Jugoslavian countries. I2a is the most frequent haplogroup here and the first habitants were Illyrians.
Post from iGENEA to 06.11.2008 17:11:11
Serbs heritated their name from the slav group of Serbs, like Croatians from the slav tribe Croatians, but this fact doesn't mean Serbs have 100% slav origins, just a 30% have slav roots.
I2a has an age about 15 000 years and the tribe of Serbs arrived in Balcan about the 5th century. A connection between this haplogroup and the Serbs cannot be confirmed, same situation for the theory of a common origin.
DNA Genealogy is a young branch and until now just the distribution of haplogroups or of tribes in single countries have been analysed. Relationsships between tribes or common origins not yet.
Post from Bojan to 06.11.2008 13:11:32
Same question? Do you understand question posed here at all?
I am making hypothesis about origin of Serbs taking into consideration that mention of their tribal name didnot appear few centuries ago, but is ancient.
Same tribal name does suggest possibility for some degree of common origin. What I asked is to say whether genetics can confirm or deny such relationships?
Btw. I2A can as well be main signature of proto-Serbs before their arrival to Balkan. Thing is according to historical sources Serbs came to Balkan from Boiiki (land named after previous inhabitants Celtic tribe Boii which is situated in Bohemia). If you look carefully, you will see that I2A is in Bohemia on like 15% while in rest of Czech republic significantly less...
Post from iGENEA to 06.11.2008 11:11:29
Again, it is very important to DIFFER betweenn Haplogroup and Primitive Tribe. We have persons with germanic tribes, who belong to I2a and also persons with illyrian or slavian origins from the same haplogroup. Both groups represent different times and a causal conclusion is impossible.
So please, stop posting the same question in 5 forums at the same time. I will answer your question. Please, be careful with these sources, and use genetic studies to get reliable information. Wikipedia is a wonderful instrument, but sources are not always verified.
Remark: Haplogroups cannot give you an informations about the primitive tribes of a country or about the origins composition of a region!! This is really important. You will find a lot of theories in the internet about connections between haplogroups and tribes or betwenn haplogroups and "races", but this connection is incorrect.
Post from Bojan to 06.11.2008 01:11:13
acording to http://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups.shtml
Serbs have 7% of haplogroup K+T (which both I assume is about K2), however in your statistics it is not mentioned.
Does it mean it didnot appear in your samples? How large sample you do have for Serbia?
According to link above K2 is very rare in other european countries. So I wonder if geographic trajectory of people carrying this group in europe can be decoded from samples?
Of course Serbs having K2 doesnot mean that haplogroup came with them, but could be interesting to research...
One of the reasons I wonder is that K2 is also high on south of Saudi Arabia (in Oman), nearby a place where ancient kingdom of Sheba existed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Middle_East_Shem-Ham.jpg).
Sheba were Kushitic people derived from Ham. Queen of Sheba/Saba was legendary wife of king Solomon. She ruled over Eritrea, Ethiopia, and Yemen. To Ethiopian people she is known as Makeda and in islamic tradition as Bilqis(again linguistical link between Macedonia/Makeda and Serbia/Sheba and Bilqis/Balkan/Balkh(Bulgarian). Note that linguistic link is in relation with geography
Sheba/Seba/Serbia is name used on north, Makeda/Macedonia in south, Bilqis/Balkan/Balkh on northeast.
note also that dinaric racial elements are (as in Balkan) relatively strong in south of Saudi Arabia.