Etruscan
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Post from iGENEA to 21.12.2009 07:12:01
The group is 25.000 - 30.000 years old, there could have been several ways it came to Europe, also with Sarmatian people, but probably not only.
The distribution therefore does not have to follow the way of one tribe at a certain point time.
Roman C. Scholz
iGENEA
info@igenea.com
www.igenea.com
Post from bojan to 20.12.2009 18:12:51
correction:
T is not present in Albania, but only in Greece and Italy in south east Europe.. it could come from anywhere due to mixing of people during Roman empire...but it could as well predate E in south Europe... any clues?
Post from bojan to 20.12.2009 18:12:46
yes, but I thought T being rare might make it easier to trace its origin...
My assumption was that T is Sarmatian in origin and that it is present in Iberian peninsula due to Sarmatian Alans and that Serbs might have partly Sarmatian origin because Sarmatian tribe Serboi/Serbi was recorded in Caucasus by Tacitus, Herodot, Pliny...)...
eupedia published that Serbs had like 7% of T haplogroup based on results for K2, but I just read (at http://www.unipv.eu/on-line/Home/AreaStampa/documento2986.html )that it is actually N1.
actually, I can see now that T is absent in ex Yugoslavia and present in north Italy, Greece and Albania.... which can indicate that T was present in Mediteranean area before E1b1b, since there are areas where E1b1b is preserved and T is not... but it can also origin from different sources (http://download.cell.com/AJHG/pdf/PIIS0002929708005922.pdf?intermediate=true shows that it is in Iberian peninsula twice as high in Sephardi Jews than in areas where it is highest, so it could be that it lacks in areas initially settled by Visigoths cause they were maybe intolerant toward Jews)
Post from iGENEA to 20.12.2009 17:12:00
Dear bojan,
The Y-DNA haplogroup T is very rare in Europe and can not be associated with a single tribe. Probably it spread over southern Europe together with E1b1b.
Roman C. Scholz
iGENEA
info@igenea.com
www.igenea.com
Post from bojan to 19.12.2009 21:12:36
Did Etruscans in your reconstruction have T haplogroup? If yes, how much of it you estimate they had? Do you assume that Etruscans are origin for T haplogroup in Italy today, or you assign T haplogroup in Italy to some other proto-tribe? Or maybe you delete T haplogroup from your database to solve the problem? :)
Post from iGENEA to 13.10.2009 18:10:33
Dear Gökalp
Etruscans probably are derived from the Lydians, an indoeuropean tribe that lived in the western part of what is Turkey today.
But when the ancestors of the Etruscans left this area and moved to Italy, they also sperated from their original lydian tribe and became an own tribe. That is why we, of course, can not find descendants of the Etruscans in Turkey today, but only far relatives, the descendants of the Lydians.
Roman C. Scholz
iGENEA
info@igenea.com
www.igenea.com
Post from Gökalp to 04.06.2009 02:06:21
A growing body of evidence suggests an Anatolian link for Etruscan people. Such as the relatively recent paper: "The Etruscan timeline: a recent Anatolian connection." Eur J Hum Genet. 2009 May;17(5):693-6. Epub 2008 Dec 3.
You also cite at least one such paper in your literature list. Simmilar studies rely on comparing Etruscan genes with genes from people of Turkey.
My question is: When we check Italy in your website we see 20% Etruscan genes. Yet in Turkey no such thing as an Etruscan gene exists.
Could you please explain this situation.
Thank you!
Post from iGENEA to 06.11.2008 11:11:26
Please be careful with wikipedia articles, the sources are not always verified.
In addition, relationsships between tribes have not been analysed yet. So, I cannot give you an answer.
Inma Pazos
iGENEA
info@igenea.com
www.igenea.com
Post from Bojan to 06.11.2008 00:11:17
Note also that on map of teritory Etruscan people inhabited http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Etruscan_civilization_map.png there is Sabines tribe just east of them, and Sardinia is west of them... those toponimes have lot of similarity to Serbia...
In medival Serbia,the area inhabited by proto-Serbs (http://www.euratlas.com/history_europe/europe_map_0800.html) resulted in state named Ras/ Rascia/Rashka (http://www.euratlas.com/history_europe/europe_map_0900.html/).
If Veneti appearing north of Etruscan can perhaps be related to Vistula Veneti in Poland and Venedae of central and east Europe, then it is logical that ruler of East Roman empire has choosen Serbs and Croats to settle them on Balkan because they were most similar to people already inhabiting there? Perhaps they did decide to return and drive Avars out in order to protect their ethnological basis, place they thought is where they origin from?
Could such hypothesis be realistic based on genetic material? Could those linguistic similarities Veneti/Venedae/Wends, Sardinia/Sabines/Serbia/Serbians and Raseni(etruscan name for themsleves)/Rasani (alternative Serb mediaval name)/Russians be coincidence or there is some genetic link?
Post from Bojan to 05.11.2008 23:11:32
Is genetic composition of Etruscan people (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Etruscan_civilization_map.png) known?
Etruscan people are ancient inhabitants of Italy and Corsica, perhaps Sardinia too) known? It is known that Etruscan people called themselves Rasenna.
Is it possible that Veneti (living slightly northern from Etruscans), and perhaps other Illyrians as well, origin from Etruscans or that Veneti were mix of Etruscans and Illyrians?
A clue to that relation could be existence of I2 haplogroup specific for Sardinia, which as island could in fact serve as genetic isolate whereas genetics of Italy changed a lot through the time due to turbulent historic events.
Another clue is in names - Serbs medival state was named Raska, and they also called themselves Rasani (note also the similarity to name Russian).
Can genetic give us some insight into whether it is possible to make any connections between ancient Etruscan and Veneti with later Venedae/Slavic populations?
Thanks in advance,
Bojan